First Run in Helium

Written by Ryan Hunt on 09 November 2012.

The first calibration process is done in He at 3.5 Bar. We are showing temperatures just a couple degrees warmer than before. Part of the difference might be that we didn't wrap the Celani wire as tight to the supports, which means that we used up the meter one wrap before the end. This may have concentrated the same amount of power into a slightly closer space.

To compensate for this, we may take the previous calibration run at 3.5 Bar in He, subtract that off, and use the difference to make an adjustment to the calibration at the loading (H @ 3.5 Bar at room temp) and running conditions (75%H/25%Ar @ 3.5 Bar at room temp) we plan. Any opinions?

The impedance of this wire performed way different, too.

More baseline data from the many calibrations. To get a sense of the effect of different gasses and pressures, we took measurements at a constant power of 110 W and plotted the temperature achieved at various pressures for each gas. I would love to plot the temperature rise vs. thermal conductivity of the gas, but haven't gotten that far, yet. Anybody wanna try that? The master database for this version is here: Master_Spreadsheet11-9.xls

We have started the second and final Helium run at 0.5 Bar. Stay tuned.

< Prev Next >

Add comment

Comments

12

0 #21 freethinker 2012-11-10 19:24

Yes I see the same behaviour for T_Well.

0 #20 Ryan Hunt 2012-11-10 17:57

I have not examined the P/T data, yet. I find your questions very intriguing. Could you look at the same thing with T_well?
I appreciate all these suggestions. It is a little overwhelming to try to absorb all of them right away, but they will be contemplated and either acted upon in this experiment if practical, or included into the next version of the experiment.
As far as a good forum for experimental methods, I think we could either create a thread in the discussion area, or you could link to a document from this comment area.

0 #19 Al Potenza 2012-11-10 17:13

I had more to say about this issue including a related reference to Storm's book, but comments are understandably required to be short. Is there a better place for suggestions about experimental methods? I looked under your "discussion" tab but there didn't seem to be a place for technical suggestions for the experiments under way. Good luck with the coming experiment.

0 #18 Al Potenza 2012-11-10 17:09

In addition to 123star's suggestion of measuring surface temperatures on the glass casing, you may wish to measure heat flow through the glass casing directly.

Reliable heat flow transducers are commercially available. Omega makes them or just Google the term. They are thin "patch-like" devices that can be clamped or adhered to the surface of your casing. Off the shelf Omega transducers have a temperature limit of 150 degrees C but higher temperature versions can be obtained.

If the heat flux readings are consistent at selected locations on the casing from run to run, your calibration is probably reliable. If heat flux changes inconsistently with time or from one test wire to another, spot temperature measurements may not be as reliable an indicator of energy production as they would be with consistent heat flow.

0 #17 123star 2012-11-10 07:28

Ok, the IR camera may certainly help to find any temperature distribution change.

My suggestion, by the way, is to place a temperature probe on a sliding support (otherwise by hand) and measure the temperature on many places along the glass casing, and plot the temperature distribution, in both blank run and loaded wire setups.

You may consider to do the same with the other thermocopules.

Good luck.

0 #16 Ryan Hunt 2012-11-09 22:53

We may have a couple easy options for dealing with the local heating vs average heating uncertainty. In the center of the cell is a 6mm stainless tube with a thermocouple int he middle. (see experiment details under the replication menu) We did the calibrations based on the Mica temperature, but the metal tube in the center may average the temperature better. It wouldn't be too hard to run another calibration graph and curve fit and determine another calibration, basically. We have taken thermal images of the glass, too, on multiple occasions. It is not transparent enough to IR to be able to see the wire or gauge wire temp, but it can give an idea of the temp distribution of the glass.

0 #15 123star 2012-11-09 22:27

oh: lcd made the same objection as mine! :eek:

:eek:

0 #14 123star 2012-11-09 22:17

Note: before I was talking about the glass casing temperature because I find it much more "reliable" than the wire or mica temperature for obvious reasons

0 #13 123star 2012-11-09 22:14

Hi guys, nice job!
I haven't read all your posts yet, could you please restate how many temperature probes there are, and where.
Some time ago at ecatnews.com we argued that there could be temperature variations along the glass casing which can't be detected by "spot" calorimetry (i.e. measuring temperature only at certain places).

Even if you detect a temperature increase with the Hydrogen loaded wire, that would not be conclusive, but if you manage to prove that the temperature is rising everywhere along the glass casing, this would be sufficient to conclude that there is excess heat production.

0 #12 David Roberson 2012-11-09 21:37

It looks like you have made several calibration runs on the first chart. If these are from the earlier calibration I think it would be wise to run several from the new wiring. The temperature that you are noting this time might just be an extreme reading due to variation.

Be careful about adjusting the chart values without a proven reason as this leaves open a large door for skeptics to enter.

Do the other temperature readings, particularly of the glass, follow this increase? I would expect the glass temperature to be more filtered and thus consistent if your theory for the difference is correct.

+1 #11 lcd 2012-11-09 20:36

How do you rule out above avg temperature variations locally at the temperature probe sights.

If you don't then the avg temperature or output energy could be the same even though you are measuring higher temperature.

Am I missing something? I didn't read every detail so it's entirely possible.

Very hopeful you guys verify excess heat. I donated.
:)

0 #10 Sanjeev 2012-11-09 20:32

Celani gives the resistance value of about 17 ohm for 105cm long wire, so I guess your values are ok. Here is the report for anyone who wants to compare the plots, but he uses R/Ro ratio.

22passi.it/.../...

However, I wonder why the other wires show odd behavior. Especially the cal1 seems to be messy data.

0 #9 Patrik 2012-11-09 20:10

Very intersting. Thanks for the update.

0 #8 Ryan Hunt 2012-11-09 20:03

We are heating wit the Celani wire. we did replace the NiChrome wire. We didn't want any dissolved hydrogen coming out of it.

And we did save the original wire. So, we could swap it back in in that particular, if it seems necessary. If we see a large signal we probably won't bother. If we see little or none, then we probably will have to.

0 #7 David Jones 2012-11-09 19:58

What you have not stated is if you are heating via the nichrome or Celani wire?, I assume the latter. If the nichrome wire was undisturbed when you replaced the isotan wire with Celani’s wire then heating with that wire should give you a reference position.

+1 #6 David Jones 2012-11-09 19:28

The odd behaviour of the impedance of the wire in the calibration runs looks like a possible experimental artefact to me. I would suggest that this needs to be tested carefully and ruled out. Otherwise, you leave an opening for doubt in your experimental method.

0 #5 David Jones 2012-11-09 19:14

Any opinions?

Do as you suggest. Once all your runs are finished reinstall the original wire used for the calibration runs so that it finishes one wrap before the end and rerun to test.

Might I also suggest that you carefully photo/video each set up so that you have a reference resource if you need to replicate any previous experiment. I suspect you do this anyway but no harm in stating the obvious!

0 #4 freethinker 2012-11-09 17:31

Yes, worked like a charm :)

+1 #3 Ryan Hunt 2012-11-09 17:29

Sorry. Fixed the link. Enjoy.

0 #2 freethinker 2012-11-09 17:14

Sorry could not access the file. Got this when tried:

The requested URL /data/calibrati ons/Master_Spre adsheet11-9.xls was not found on this server.

12

Refresh comments list
RSS feed for comments to this post

Here is your generous contributions so far towards our $500,000 target, thanks everyone! : $45,020 Please Donate
See the current state of our booked costs here