EU Cell#2 active wire run (UPDATE #1 + New Video)

Welcome

The Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project is a group dedicated to researching Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (often referred to as LENR) while sharing all procedures, data, and results openly online. We rely on comments from online contributors to aid us in developing our experiments and contemplating the results. We invite everyone to participate in our discussions, which take place in the comments of our experiment posts. These links can be seen along the right-hand side of this page. Please browse around and give us your feedback. We look forward to seeing you around Quantum Heat.

Join us and become part of the project. Become one of the active commenters, who question our work and suggest next steps.

Or, if you are an experimenter, talk to us about becoming an affiliated lab and doing your work in a Live Open Science manner.

We had very good results this afternoon, I tried to nail down the activation temperature using a passive heating after reducing the pressure to 1 bar and increasing the power in the NiCr wire. for a temperature of 184°C we were able to see T mica rising without any change in P_in. It kept oscillating with an amplitude at lower value as the temperature was set lower.

Then reducing power in several time allowed us to see that this behaviour was showing a lower amplitude.

The first run of the EU cell will occur at around 20:30 CET. We will have a range of power metrics for you.

P_Out Low (W) = The most conservative power in watts output from the cell calculated from the highest calibration curve fit
P_Out High (W) = The most optimistic power in watts output from the cell calculated from the lowest calibration curve fit

P_Xs Low (W) = The most conservative EXCESS power calculated by the formulae

P_Xs Low = P_Out Low - (Power (Blue) + Power (Red))

Today at 12:12:12 PST on the 12/12/12 (during the 21st CET hour) we will power the active wire and see if there is any excess heat generated from the cell. We should start at P_in = 48W to get the best replication of Celani’s work.

We have a “deliberate mistake” in the data viewer, if you are sober enough at this time in the day, we challenge you to spot it.

Wish us luck!

UPDATE #1 Flicking the switch

So, as of 2:55 Indian time I am seeing around 6W Pxs on our most conservative baseline.

Here was the moment of switchover of the Power.

Bob

< Zurück Weiter >

Add comment

Comments

1234567

+1 #122 artefact 2012-12-14 14:10

have a nice lunchtime!

+2 #121 Robert Greenyer 2012-12-14 13:57

@all

Lunch with CELANI - OPEN GOOGLE HANGOUT NOW!

Search for bob greenyer

0 #120 Ecco 2012-12-14 13:43

Reviewing the data, just after input power was increased to 55W, at the same time of the sudden change in wire impedance, there also was an anomalous rise in reactor temperatures most probably not depending on external factors (air conditioning, etc). This rise was short lived, but relatively intense.

Could this have been due to some sort of short-term chemical reaction from the wire? Perhaps due to the release of more oxygen from it?

0 #119 Ron B 2012-12-14 13:03

How does the accuracy of the thermocouple affect the readings we are viewing?

This is the accuracy for the thermocouples:
Temp Type E J K N R S T

200 1.7 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.0 1.0 0.8

digital.ni.com/.../...

0 #118 Gerrit 2012-12-14 12:14

Quoting Ecco:

The higher the T_Ambient, the less the P_xs, though.

If the P_Xs calculation is based on the difference between a measured temperature and T_Ambient, then an increasing T_Ambient will decrease the offset and thus decrease P_Xs.

0 #117 Philip Quarles 2012-12-14 11:45

I googled "Seebeck Calorimeter" and found this:

"Use Of A Very Sensitive Seebeck Calorimeter To Study The Pons-Fleischman n And Letts Effects" at lenr-canr.org/.../...

0 #116 Ecco 2012-12-14 11:37

The higher the T_Ambient, the less the P_xs, though.

0 #115 Gerrit 2012-12-14 11:32

It seems the increase in power from 48W to 55W influenced T_Ambient.

0 #114 Ecco 2012-12-14 10:58

Following the latest input power increase to 55W, active wire impedance started acting weirdly, decreasing in sudden steps. I think that after power will be brought back to 48W, wire impedance will turn out to be lower than before the power rise.

It will also be interesting to see if after decreasing input power back to 48W, excess power will be the same or will have increased. I'm starting to think that it's not got a definite relationship with wire impedance.

-1 #113 Gerrit 2012-12-14 10:48

I looked at temp values from 8 december 01:00 to 12:00. There was no power switched on during that time.

All the temperature readings are in phase with T_Ambient.

Offset of T_Well, T_Mica, T_GlassIn and T_GlassOut could be due to pressure decrease during that time.

Larger offset of T-Board (approx +5°C) should be explained.

i.imgur.com/gXOcb.png

0 #112 Ecco 2012-12-14 09:50

Offtopic, but Danielle Passerini (22passi) is live blogging today's "Coherence 2012" conference in Rome attended by Masteromatteo (STMicroelectro nics), Celani and Bob Greenyer (and others in the LENR scene, of course). Google Translation needed:

22passi.blogspot.com/.../...

+1 #111 Ecco 2012-12-14 09:45

My suggestions, while keeping the current set-up. These shouldn't be hard or costly to implement:

- Have a constant, controlled air flow around the cell. This avoids stagnating pockets of heated air affecting temperature measurements and reactor performance.

- Use a stainless steel tube instead of glass. In order to avoid possible artifacts due to changing wire emissivity affecting temperature readings. This would also help contain more heat inside the reactor.

- Paint the outer walls of the reactor tube in high emissivity black paint. This would make T_glassout temperature readings and emissive power calculations by Stefan-Boltzman n calculation more reliable.

0 #110 Eric Walker 2012-12-14 09:34

Re next steps -- although I gather that a flow calorimeter will be very helpful here, it seems like it would be a big mess to immerse the cell in a fluid bath of sufficient size. Another possibility is a Seebeck calorimeter: bit.ly/12p1sMJ.

0 #109 123star 2012-12-14 09:12

Is it possible to have an official and updated chart like the one Ecco posted (thanks Ecco!)?
This is the chart that he posted:

0 #108 Eric Walker 2012-12-14 08:59

Three thoughts to add to what has been said:

1. A promising case has been made that the HVAC system is kicking in and is adding a near-hourly period to P_Xs Low.

2. When you subtract out the period, I suspect you'll get a fairly smooth curve, with several watts above Power (Blue). As Jed Rothwell has pointed out elsewhere (bit.ly/SVw04s), I think the kind of signal we're probably looking for if LENR is underway is going to be very jumpy -- first up, then way down, then way up, etc. This leads me to think we have a calibration problem in this instance. In any event, the SB argument that Sanjeev has made suggests that the error bars are quite large here; if we do things right, I think we can get them down to the milliwatts.

3. If we don't have a calibration problem, the current result would be pretty exciting. It would appear that we have accomplished the goal of replicating Celani, and can then address how to make the error bars smaller.

0 #107 Chuck 2012-12-14 05:34

@Sanjeev, I believe that the various varieties of fluorinerts have boiling points between 150 and 300C, so one should be adquate for the job. You may remember that Fluorinert was used as a coolant on the Cray-2 supercomputer-- it has excellent heat-transfer characteristics and is chemically non-reactive.

So it should make an excellent medium, but there may be better ones.

+5 #106 Rats 2012-12-14 02:44

Cool, 3000 views on this post so far. Gangam style ain't got nothing on the MFMP! ;-)

;-)

+2 #105 Dieter Seeliger 2012-12-13 23:58

Hello, congrats for the first run !
Well done :-)

:-)

Reading all this comments about the changing ambient temperature, I would like to ask some questions about your temperature measuring system:
Where is your cold junction located ?
Is the cold junction exposed to ambient temperature or
is the junction held on a stable temperature ?
How are you doing your cold junction compensation ?
How are the TC`s connected to the measuring amplifier (copper or TC wire) ?

If you connect your TC`s to the amplifier by use of an copper wire, there is a second TC present in your loop at the location where you connect the TC wire to the copper wire. This second TC could be affected by ambient temperature changes.
When this effect is not compensated with a secondary measurement at this location, your measured data will show exact the behaviour you recognize with changing ambient temperature.

Br Dieter

+2 #104 Robert Greenyer 2012-12-13 23:47

@All

Thanks for all the great debate and constructive criticism, you are all helping make this a better experiment.

I am now in Rome and will hopefully capture some interesting things tomorrow.

+1 #103 Ascoli65 2012-12-13 23:14

In my opinion, the heating affects T_GlassOut because of changes in convective transport outside of the glass due to operation of its fan.

See: i.imgur.com/eVjeP.jpg

1234567

Refresh comments list
RSS feed for comments to this post

Here is your generous contributions so far towards our $500,000 target, thanks everyone! : $45,020 Please Donate
See the current state of our booked costs here